From 1911SFOREVER on ARFCOM
Eli Dicken is the upstanding young man that shut down what would have been a horrific mass shooting event in Greenwood Indiana in July of 2022. At the time there was great speculation in GD what pistol/equipment he used. I can now definitively put that to rest. Young Dicken’s lawyer is a student of mine, and he gave me these pics to post up.
Gun: Gen 5 G19 with stock sights. (The sights had been mangled in a motorcycle accident. He filed off the smooshed bits and pressed ahead with what he had.) The gun also had an Olight Valkryie and a “Don’t Tread on Me” backplate. Pretty much a stereotypical young man without a lot of money concealed carry set up.
Ammo: Blazer brass FMJ
In fifteen seconds he:
1) Comprehended what was happening
2) Got his GF out of the way
3) Braced and delivered two hits out of four shots at 43 yards (He had the presence of mind to stop shooting when people ran into his field of fire.)
4) Moved to 20 yards and went 4 for 4
5) Closed to 8 yards and went 2 for 2.
He then turned himself in to a responding security guard. He was questioned, then released, by the police.
Pistol sights after motorcycle accident:
I’m scratching my head here. I hadn’t seen that he was carrying FMJ. There’s lots of commentary out there that makes this guy out to be some sort of firearms ninja and telling us to practice more to be this good. Did he just get lucky landing all those hits?
I think he probably just got lucky. There is a lot to the saying that you cant get lucky if you dont do everything right. But using budget ball 9mm ammo removes a lot of skill and becomes a lot of luck when it comes to 40 plus yard lethal hits.
Jesus take the trigger
No. Nope. No.
Front sight focus, proper grip, proper sight alignment, trigger control, breathing control, stable base.
Those are the elements of marksmanship.
Quality ammo is more reliable and has lower muzzle flash. High performance bullets have better terminal ballistics.
Aluminum case FMJ range ammo has the same accuracy potential as expensive defensive ammo.
Luck had jack-shit to do with these hits. It was skill and marksmanship fundamentals.
You shouldn’t comment on things you know nothing about.
lol no. aluminum case ball ammo does not have the same accuracy potential as match or quality ammo , that is absurd. I think I know a bit about what goes into accuracy both in the gun, ammo and user. And I can comment on it as much as I damn well please.
Explain precisely how defensive ammo has higher accuracy potential than Aluminum case FMJ out of a standard G17 at 40M?
Ability beats gear. Training beats gear.
40M is a long pistol shot, but not outrageously so.
ability does not over come the simple physics of shit ammo with inconsistent bullet weights, powder charges, case thickness and weight , neck tension , jacket thickness and run out, primer ignition consistency etc etc etc. the statement that metal case ball is just as potentially accurate as match or quality premium SD is absurd in the extreme. To make a hit with a pistol at 40 plus yards with shit ammo is as much luck as it is skill. But as I said, you can’t get lucky unless you do everything right to begin with,
this is a joke right? I can’t believe you’d say something like this and mean it. Or is this a different John M than Im used to commenting ?
I was wondering the same thing – maybe a master class in sarcasm?
yeah may be. That cant be the same John M who regularly comments here
Yeah – he’s…not a dick?
LOL. Thanks. I’m the “regular” John M. (Note the period) and I know that bottom-shelf FMJ does not have the same accuracy potential as quality match or self-defense ammo.
Personally I think the guy was likely a preternaturally good shooter. It sounds like he had had a little informal training but not many people can go 2 for 4 at 40 yards with a little informal training.
And while he certainly got lucky, you have to be very, very good with a pistol to even be in a place where you can get lucky.
thank God, I was worried you’d lost your mind there for a minute
I called my IP lawyer and he said he’d go ahead and send this other “John M” character a bill to license the use of the handle.
“It is the Indian, not the arrow” so I doubt very seriously that kind of demonstrated practical accuracy (percentage of hits) is purely the result of blind luck.
Agreed. There isn’t 1 in 100 shooters that you could ask to do that kind of shooting under pressure right in the middle of their happy meal.
I mean, sure luck played a role, probably nowhere more than the terminal effect of the bullets. But you’ve got to be very good to have that kind of luck.
Like I said and will always say, you can’t be lucky unless you do everything else right to begin with
“Fortune Favors the Prepared Mind (Fortuna Eruditis Favet). Not that I’m a Latin snob, I just know how to find things on Algore’s innertubes.
The first time I ever fired a K-31 with GP-11at 1,000 yards, I got in prone, set the rear sight and fired 3 rounds and hit a man sized target every time. While I am a very experience long range shooter, that was more luck than it was skill for several reasons. While I know all the things I have to do to make a hit like that, there are things beyond your control sometimes and to pull off something like that while making a kind of educated guess still takes some luck. I am sure the kid is an excellent shot and irrespective of luck helping him with his ammo choices, there is ZERO doubt he is as cool as the other side of the pillow while under the most extreme life or death pressure and that’s what counted the most
I’m pretty sure this cop also said after the fact that he got lucky: