Every once in a while a topic of conversation comes up on B-ARFCOM that is actually worth discussion. I had been thinking about this for about 2 weeks now and some worthy over on the forum started a thread about it. His opening comment/question below.

“Has Ukraine shown us that SCHV rifles are more than adequate for a near peer fight? For the past 10 years the Army has been pushing for the NGSW to replace the M4 and 5.56, with a battle rifle capable of only holding 20 rounds. The idea is being able to defeat armor at 600M, but is that capability needed? Has Ukraine shown that we are better off with more ammo, less recoil, and lighter weapons?”

It seems to me that the worry of super Russian Level 10 titanium armor plates is proven laughable. Let alone the need to defeat them at extended ranges to get “over match”. Drones and man portable anti armor and anti air weapons seem to be the decisive factor for the nonce. Though granted things have not developed into an insurgency fight yet.

Of course, no one retires as a four star general to get a pie job at SIG or HK talking like that.

11 Comments

  1. BAP45 says:

    I would hazard that pursuing the capability is warranted as regular level iv of some flavor of becoming more and more the norm. At some point it will even be common among insurgencies. But that also doesn’t mean that right here right now that’s what we need.
    And really the ammo is the question not the firearm. I think I would take them more seriously if they were only focusing on ammo capabilities and then looking at adapting existing platforms.
    If I had a say it would be Keep mucking around with the prototypes until we have something viable then maybe start a gradual role out but like you said no one gets that sweet retirement gig being reasonable and conservative.

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    1. Shawn says:

      think about how little of the body is actually covered by plates and the changes of getting hit anywhere else by small arms fire in a firefight or by frags or over pressure m fire. etc. Its a stupid fucking concept

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      1. BAP45 says:

        Yeah, definitely a back burner idea.

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  2. The military industrial complex has to keep churning out new ideas to keep the taxpayer dollars continuously flowing into their pockets. The only thing that the U.S. needs to do is make the MK. 262 the standard cartridge. The M4 series is easily relevant for another 30 years,

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Shawn says:

      i completely agree with that

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  3. Riddle me this: Why does so much of the US small-arms design/prototype efforts we taxpayers are funding seem to obsess over performance at 500 to 600 meters? How much combat is actually done at those distances by regular infantry/Marine personnel?

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    1. Shawn says:

      i guess it sounds impressive. makes congress more willing to fund

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    2. John M. says:

      I believe that Afghanistan had quite a large number of engagements at those distances.

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      1. Shawn says:

        yes. though, that starts to get into indirect fire for modern tactics. no one would be taking them under rifle fire anyway

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        1. John M. says:

          Yeah, Kirk had some good comment thread essays on how the rifle/MG engagements at those ranges in Afghanistan were a failure of ROE far more so than any rifle/cartridge/MG failure. Out at those ranges you want to be engaging with artillery or air support but that just wasn’t available under Afghanistan ROEs.

          Really, call the JAGs and the politicians, not SIG.

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          1. BAP45 says:

            I wonder if he’s still lurking around

            Like

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